Category: News

Dani Murphy has over a decade of creative and strategy roles under her belt, but like many people we interview, her path into the podcast industry has been a bit unconventional. After a brief stint in journalism, she worked as an advertising creative where she worked on brand-focused concepts.

However, it was leading the Creative Strategy for the partnerships team at a media agency when she discovered  the podcast space allowed her to create adverts and branded content that people genuinely wanted to spend time with. Having found her niche in media partnerships, her path led to working at Acast. “I’ve been a radio and podcast geek from day one,” she says “so I was thrilled to specialise in my favourite type of media”.

Now, Dani has taken that podcast geek knowledge into her work as the Co-Founder of Just Add Joy, the UK’s only podcast-led creative agency. Francesca Turauskis caught up with Dani to find out more about creative strategies, shaking up the cultural landscape and whether there is a ‘discoverability problem’ in podcasting…

FT: As the lead in the creative department at Acast I expect you worked with a wide range of shows on brand-related content. Are there different strategies you have to use for different shows?

DM: My background in advertising really instilled in me the power of the big idea – the kind of evergreen, channel-agnostic concepts that can thrive anywhere. While there are plenty of brilliant tactical or media-specific ideas out there, I believe the most exciting and effective campaigns are those where you can tell a brand story across multiple channels. That’s what I brought to Acast as Creative Director.

I trained the creative team there to shift gears, from pitching show-specific tactics to developing big concepts that could live, breathe, and adapt across different shows. The beauty of this approach is twofold: not only can each creator bring the big idea to life in a way that’s unique to them, but the core idea remains strong even if a client wants to switch up the shows or a creator decides to step back. It’s about having one strategy and idea that works for the brand, executed in multiple different ways depending on the creators involved.

FT: Do you have any examples of that in practice that you could share?

A good example of this is the Klarna Money Talks card game. Klarna wanted more people to talk about money, so instead of scripting a load of sponsorship reads for creators we created a conversation card game. Creators played the game in their shows, bringing to life the talking points in their own way. We had vulnerable conversations, unexpected confessions, hilarious anecdotes – something that we just simply wouldn’t be able to achieve if we were trying to sell in scripts or other show-specific tactics.

Kate and I founded Just Add Joy to take this approach even further, working with an even broader scope of shows, unrestricted by networks or trading deals. We come up with big ideas that resonate with both brands and audiences, and then the creators bring them to life in the way that suits them best.

I love this way of working. There are few better feelings than watching an idea take several new leases of life when creators get their hands on them.

FT: You mentioned your own creative agency, Just Add Joy, which is podcast-led. Is that unusual for creative agencies?

There are plenty of podcast media agencies out there, most of them are focused on selling media spots and spaces. But nobody was selling ideas the way a true creative agency should.

You’ve got creative agencies that specialise in social media, others that are all about AI, and the more traditional ones that focus on TV. But there was this glaring gap in the market for a creative agency that specialises in podcast media.

Unlike those other agencies however, we’re not boxed into the podcast medium. That’s because we don’t believe podcasting is a medium. Even the dictionary can’t keep up with what a podcast is these days, whether it’s on YouTube, on Twitch, or live shows or on TV. Our podcast-led specialism means we focus on how best to work with creators to bring the big ideas to life.

Work with podcast creators and your ideas can genuinely live anywhere.

FT: What is it about podcasts (and podcast creators) that you love to work with?

The best thing about podcast media is that it doesn’t come with a rulebook – frankly, there aren’t any rules. It’s an open space where creativity can genuinely thrive, and we’re just beginning to explore what’s possible. Jamie Laing talks about podcasting being still in its black-and-white era, and I couldn’t agree more. We’re only at the start of discovering its potential.

Look how quickly podcasts have shaken up the cultural landscape. Take the most recent general election, for example – it was dubbed ‘the first podcast election,’ which really highlights how influential podcasting has become. Podcasts are making us smarter, more informed. They bring depth and nuance that’s often missing elsewhere, and that’s why I find them so exciting to work with.

What’s more, podcasts have uncovered some incredibly sharp talent that might never have broken through on TV or social media. These are fresh voices and perspectives that are changing the way we think, talk, and engage with the world. They’re not just influential – they’re more influential than traditional influencers and celebrities.

FT: There is a belief that podcasts have a ‘discoverability problem’. Do you agree?

Is there a podcast ‘discoverability problem’? Sure, but let’s also admit that content discovery is a mess everywhere. I saw a report the other day that said it takes us, on average, over 11 minutes just to find something to watch because we’re swamped with choices. Cory Doctorow calls this “enshittification”: platforms that once worked for users now prioritise profit, drowning us in an avalanche of stuff that’s harder and harder to sift through.

The podcast world is crowded, but no more than any other space. The real problem is that Indie creators are battling against big media brands, with deep pockets.

This is why I think podcast creators need to embrace social. As podcasts break out into more diverse channels, they actually become easier to discover. Especially on interest-algorithms like TikTok where your content is more likely to find its tribe.

In this era, focus is everything. You can’t be everything to everyone, so don’t even try. Instead, perfect what you do best and deliver it to a loyal, engaged audience. As content options keep multiplying, taste becomes crucial – it’s the new currency. We don’t just need more creators; we need curators who can sift through the dirt and find the gems for us.

Audio producer Mia Lobel recently floated a brilliant idea: what if we curated podcast feeds, tailoring content to specific tastes? It would make discovering new shows a lot easier, and open up fresh ways to monetise shows.

I also loved the fact that Reading and Leeds Festival had its own podcast stage this year – what a great way to discover new creators. The more we take notes from other entertainment forms the more podcasting will thrive.

FT: Why do you think that the idea that podcasts are particularly difficult to discover is such a big belief?

The UK Podcast Survey highlighted that a significant portion of potential listeners stop listening or never start because they can’t find content that interests them, don’t know how to access podcasts, or find the medium inconvenient – so I can’t say that there aren’t barriers.

But I think the conversation about discoverability obscures the real problem.

We’ve somehow convinced ourselves that if we create something amazing, the audience will just find it. But that’s not how it works in any other industry. Byron Sharp, in his book How Brands Grow, makes it crystal clear: if you want to grow, you’ve got to reach far and wide – and that takes money. We wouldn’t expect a consumer brand to blow up without some serious marketing behind it, yet we keep hoping podcast brands will magically take off without spending a penny.

And that’s where it gets tricky for indie creators. They’re stuck in this catch-22: they need to grow to attract advertisers, but without upfront investment in marketing, that growth just isn’t happening. No growth means no money, and no money means staying hidden in the crowd.

What we really need is more cross-category learning (eg. brand growth principles and marketing 101) and a real commitment to investing in podcasts like we would in any brand. It’s not enough to hope that word of mouth will do the trick. We need to put some serious muscle – and money – behind these shows so they can actually reach the people who’d love them.

FT: Speaking of learning, what are you most looking forward to at the International Women’s Podcast Festival in October?

DM: I’m absolutely buzzing to dive into the whole community vibe of the International Women’s Podcast Festival. It’s going to be magical. But if I’m being honest, the highlight for me has to be Sarah Koenig’s appearance. It’s been 10 years since Serial – the podcast that put podcasts on the map – and I can’t wait to hear her reflections and insights on how the landscape has evolved since then. To hear directly from the person who shaped modern podcasting as we know it? That’s a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity, and I’m here for it.

—

If you want to learn more about creative forms of advertising, Dani will be presenting the Creating Brilliant Ads workshop alongside Kate Mander at this year’s International Women’s Podcast Festival on 4th October 2024. Tickets are on sale now.

Don’t miss the once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to see Sarah Koenig! Join us at the Southbank Centre, London, on Thursday 3rd October at 7.30pm. Find out more and get your tickets on the Southbank Centre website.

We’re just over a month away from the International Women’s Podcast Festival 2024, and we can’t wait to be in a room with some of the most influential people in the podcasting world. One of the best things about a podcast festival is that you can get to know our speakers and their work before you even arrive.

To help you level up your excitement, we’re sharing some of the podcasts that have been made by our speakers this year. Whether you are looking for a catalogue of interviews, a community of sisterhood or some insight to the recent history of another country, these shows will keep that podcast itch scratched until October!

TAPE LETTERS

Tape Letters is a project that stretches across multiple disciplines, including poetry, photography and physical exhibitions – but at the heart is the sound of one person talking to another. When many Pakistanis migrated and settled in the UK between 1960-1980, they had to turn to an unorthodox form of communication to stay connected to friends and family back in Pakistan: recording and sending messages via post on cassette tape. Tape Letters features original tapes collected from families, as well as oral history recordings and interviews with the people involved in the project. Leona Fensome was one of the Producers on this series (alongside Executive Producer Lucia Scazzocchio, who spoke at our last festival) and you can catch Leona speaking on the How to Tell Stories That Matter (and Make Money) panel at this year’s festival. Listen to Tape Letters now.

TO MY SISTERS

Courtney Daniella Boateng and Renée Kapuku are your online big sisters, and their show To My Sisters offers listeners in-depth conversations about subjects that often aren’t tackled enough. From how marriage changes your friendships, to healing your relationship with men, they offer episodes that are focused on wellness and growth but in a way that doesn’t ignore the social context. The sense of community comes out in the way they bring on guests to talk about their expertise, but also in the #TMSHotTakes episodes that react to the needs of their community, such as the recent ‘Racism in the UK Isn’t ‘Covert’ #TMSHotTakes‘. Courtney and Renée were recipients of the 2023 Content is Queen Micro Grant and we’re thrilled that they are hosting the From Audience to Community workshop on 4th October. To get a good context for their session, listen to the podcast here.

SLIDING DOORS

Based on the concept coined by the 90s movie classic, Sliding Doors host Jennie Becker chats to some amazing people from all walks of life about their Sliding Doors Moments. From Spandau Ballet’s Martin Kemp to Stef Reid MBE, the series gives some wonderful insight to some household names, as well as the randomness of life. We get to learn why Jennie Falconer left university, and hear Dane Batiste’s theory of the multiverse, or rather the ‘Daneiverse’. But we also get some episodes that ask us to consider alternative histories that set people on a path long before they were born. The sheer range of guests Jennie has spoken to is staggering, and so it’s very fitting that she will be running the Booking Great Guests workshop at this year’s festival. Listen to her catalogue of guests here.

AFGHAN STAR

Afghan Star is perhaps one of the most recommended shows of the moment, catching the ears of the editors at Apple Podcasts, The Week, The Telegraph, The Spectator – and most importantly we’re fans too! In the years between the fall of the Taliban and its return, people all over Afghanistan planned their lives around watching a musical talent show. The Afghan Star television series launched a cultural revolution, but when the Taliban returned in 2021 the show came to an abrupt end. John Legend narrates this series, but much like the Afghan Star television show, the podcast will pull you in with the true stories of the singers and the people involved in the show. This was produced by Meera Kumar, a producer whose work has been recognised by multiple awards. She’s also been named a Radio Academy 30 Under 30 and recently worked on the pilot episode of Sissy, which was a recipient of the Content is Queen Micro Grant 2023. We can’t wait to listen to her at The Shape of Shows workshop at this year’s festival, but in the meantime listen to Afghan Star here.

THIS IS DATING

This Is Dating is produced by the same team as the iconic Where Should We Begin? with Esther Perel, which lets listeners in on real psychotherapy sessions. This Is Dating has a similar format and we get to eavesdrop on real people’s first encounters and dates, before hearing them speak to experts about how to (basically) do better next time. Both shows have the same feel of being let into something you shouldn’t quite be privy to, but in both cases you come away from episodes with small revelations that just might change the way you approach life. Hiwote Getaneh was one of the producers on the show, and as the only producer who was also dating at the time, she found herself having to approach the production in a different way to her colleagues. Hiwote will be hosting the Structure of Intimacy Panel at the festival this year. Listen to This Is Dating here.

INTERCONNECTED VOICES

Interconnected Voices was a product of the Transmission Roundhouse programme, which offers emerging presenters and producers aged 18–25 a chance to create content from the heart. Produced and hosted by Cherise Hamilton-Stephenson alongside co-producer Bridey Addison-Child, the show combined insightful political commentary with personal stories from underrepresented, diverse and minority voices. The show ended in 2020, giving it something of a time-capsule feel if you listen now, but some of the conversations were quite prescient (or perhaps, four years later, it is incredible how stagnant progress is…) Cherise will be speaking on the Power of the Producer Panel at this year’s festival. Listen here.

 

PLUS MANY MORE!

This is just the first page of the podcast app when it comes to incredible shows by our speakers this year. There are several speakers with shows we’ve recommended before and other speakers who are working on more than one show at a time, or providing support away from production:

• Ella Watt’s passion project Camlann is a reimagining of the Arthurian legends.
• Bea Duncan’s work on the last Anthems talks series shared conversations from trans individuals.
• Natasha Miller’s food podcast Bitter/Sweet is a lovely, intimate short series.
• Menopause Whilst Black from Karen Arthur was one of our first recommendations for providing a safe space through podcasting.
• Raj Pander’s podcast Almost 40 is about getting older, but not necessarily wiser – it focuses on milestones, and not just the ones to do with age, but the ones that her guests think are important.
• In The Reset Rebel, journalist Jo Youle meets the rogues, rebels, and rascals who have carved out a life on the island of Ibiza.
• As the Founder of Chalk + Blade, without Ruth Barnes we might not be obsessed with the BBC’s Obsessed With… series.
• And of course, the original true crime podcaster, Sarah Koenig will be celebrating the 10th anniversary of Serial on the 3rd October at the Southbank Centre.

If you want to connect with incredible women like this who are shaping the rapidly expanding world of podcasting, you can join us on 4th October 2024 for talks, workshops, panel discussions and much more! Tickets are available now or find out more on the International Women’s Podcast Awards website.

Our recent article series about the experiences of working class and financially insecure audio professionals has shown a need for more inclusion and opportunities across class lines. In the final article on the topic, our writer Francesca Turauskis suggests some actions for individuals to make audio a more welcoming career path…

My deep-dive into the topic of class, socioeconomics and audio in the past couple of months has been somewhat disheartening, but the response that our articles have been receiving has been loud. There is a level of resonance from many people struggling with the current state of the industry.

Whether you are working for a company, freelancing in various roles or looking for work, it can sometimes seem like changing the audio industry is too big a challenge on an individual level. However, some of the anecdotes we’ve seen in this series have proved to me that there is plenty that we can do as individuals to make audio more welcoming.

Encourage Authentic Accents

Accent snobbery is something that has come up a few times in this series, and it’s easy to trace this back to the early days of radio. If I’m being generous, I would acknowledge that audio relies on voice to convey meaning and so for producers and voice directors, an accent might be a consideration for how the audience will perceive the speaker and story being told.

The difficulty comes when we as creators expect (and even rely on) stereotypes as a shortcut to storytelling. Accents get pigeon-holed into genres, and identities get pigeonholed into sounding a certain way. We heard from Chris Mitchell (Breaking Atoms) last article and how he’s been told his voice is “not street enough”. When Chris was working on Redemption Man (part of Unedited’s Pilot Season 2024 and a recipient of the Content is Queen 2022 micro-grant) this was something he found himself doubting too: “I told myself, ‘your voice does not slap’.”

Whilst most people don’t like listening to their own voice for various reasons, this specifically speaks to the lack of vocal representation and is not to be ignored. Sangeeta Pillai of the Masala Podcast (a multi-award-winning show) commented after my article that she had to work hard to ‘like’ her accent because “all the voices I heard on British radio/audio sounded ‘posh British'”. Both producers and listeners are used to that stereotype, but when accents become a definer for the type of work people get hired for, the lack of opportunity self-perpetuates the lack of representation.

The good news is that as producers and directors, individuals have the power to change what we hear. With Redemption Man, Chris was encouraged by Unedited’s Founder, Bernard P. Achampong, to be authentic with his narration. Bernard reassured Chris that he was the right person to tell the story: “He asked ‘Why are YOU telling this story?’ I did some soul-searching and rewrote the script with personal reflections and anecdotes. That’s when it clicked for me. The script came together nicely, and I knocked out the voiceover in over 30 minutes.”

What is lovely (and telling) about this anecdote is how it shaped not just the delivery, but the script of the show. Who knows what creativity we are missing by asking for carbon-copy narration and script? Since then, Chris has done voiceover work for other projects. “I’ve received so much positive feedback about my voice. It’s funny how that works.”

So please – don’t correct accents or expect people to speak a certain way. Encourage the authentic voice of all the professionals you work with.

Expand The Social Side of Work

One thing that I briefly touched on when talking about cultural capital was how joint experiences can make networking easier for people. This can be shared backgrounds (such as the unique experience of Oxbridge education that is overrepresented in media) but it can also help when people build connections around shared interests and hobbies.
This type of connection also shows up in office culture, and it can be a big part of whether a workplace feels welcoming to everyone. The Multitrack initiative, which helps arrange paid placements in production companies, mentions this aspect of the work/office environment in the Host Company Code that they ask participating companies to agree to:

“…encourage the Multitrack fellow to be part of the social side of workplace culture and will include them in any appropriate group activity, without pressure or fear of repercussions if they aren’t able to attend.”

As individuals, it’s worth pausing to think about the social side of your workplace and how you contribute to it. Do group activities rely on having the money to participate? Are there aspects that might rely on shared background or specific knowledge? If so, consider if there is a way you can expand this social side to be more universal. That doesn’t mean you have to stop socialising in a way you enjoy, but it does mean noticing and stopping any repercussions or exclusion that may have unconsciously developed.

Offer Mentorship

One of the most tangible ways you can help develop and encourage a welcoming culture in audio is to offer mentorship to individuals who are underrepresented in audio. This is especially important if your workplace doesn’t offer placement opportunities, but you could also offer it to someone who did a short placement to you. Mentorship is a really effective way of meaningfully increasing representation in the workplace, as it can help address the needs and concerns of an individual, as well as provide ongoing support and advice to help them find opportunities.

It’s not just the mentees that benefit from mentorship programmes, as mentors can also learn a lot from the experience, such as gaining market insights from a different generation. If you are interested in providing this kind of support to someone, there aren’t currently many audio-focused mentorship programmes to support you as the mentor in the process. An exception is the Radio Academy RAMP mentoring scheme for mid-career radio and audio professionals, and it would be great if this type of partnering was extended to the 30 Under 30 cohort as well.

Another option is Arts Emergency, which is offering a new mentorship programme across the arts, including radio and podcasting. If you are happy to be paired with a 16-18 year old for a 12-month period, the scheme offers training and support to you as a mentor as well.

What Have We Learnt From This Series?

When I started writing about this topic, I thought that it would be a single article sharing some issues around how the class gap showed up in audio. However, I couldn’t ignore the passionate response from a wide range of professionals sharing anecdotes around the situation. We’ve seen that financial insecurity is an issue across class lines, and it is a major contributor to who is able to stay in the audio industry. However, we’ve also seen that pay rates are not the only factor in who gets hired for work – the personal experiences of working class individuals show a divide that goes beyond money.

As the initial Creative PEC report that kicked off this topic shows, many of these problems are not unique to the audio industry – but if we want audio to be a sustainable industry that continues to grow and innovate, making audio a uniquely welcoming industry should be seen as a priority.

Thank you to everyone who filled in the survey, spoke to me about their experience and shared their thoughts on the article on social media.

Read The Other Articles In This Series:

How Is The Class Gap Affecting Audio And Podcasting Professionals?

Is There A Brain Drain in Audio?

The Cultural Capital of Audio

How Can Companies Welcome Working Class Individuals?

Our recent article series about the experiences of working class and financially insecure audio professionals has shown a need for more inclusion and opportunities across class lines. In the final two articles on the topic, our writer Francesca Turauskis suggests some actions to make audio a more accessible career, starting with some options for companies…

Now that we’ve done our best to outline where some of the issues are around class and socioeconomics in audio, I wanted to end this series with some tangible actions. When it comes to audio companies, there is a wide range of influence and power between the big corporations (such as BBC, Spotify and Audible) and indies that might have a handful of shows.

None-the-less, there are some things that all companies could implement fairly easily. What’s more, as mentioned back in my first article on the topic, there is an intersection of socioeconomic status and other marginalised identities, and some of these suggestions are likely to increase equality in many ways. So what are we waiting for?

START GATHERING DATA

Class and socioeconomic status aren’t protected characteristics so companies aren’t legally required to collect the data. However, having a baseline of data can be a great way to understand if there is improvement to be made in your company, so I suggest gathering information on your working class workforce percentage and pay gaps.

Ideally companies across the sector would use the same measure of ‘working class’. I mentioned in my first article how definitions of class can be tricky because self-identification doesn’t align with metrics, but luckily the Socio Economic Commission has guidance on how employers should measure socio-economic background.

Gathering data in this way would bring the sector in line with the BBC measures, and align with the Audio UK mention of socio-economic background in their statement on diversity and inclusion. This can be a baseline for companies to set internal, tangible targets to aim for better representation in their workforce.

INCREASE REGIONAL AND REMOTE WORK

We’ve seen an increase in remote working options in recent years (in large part because of the enforced remote working during the Covid pandemic restrictions). Many jobs are advertised as remote or hybrid, and for many, jobs being in the office is often a preference rather than a necessity. All employers should be offering this as an option whenever able, and perhaps consider splitting out the work that needs to be in person to a separate role to allow more specialism (e.g. an engineer or studio manager rather than a ‘producer’ doing it all – more on this in the job role section below!).

We’re also starting to see more companies basing themselves outside of London. Notably, last month saw Persephonica move their operations to Sheffield, where both Founders are from. In the press release, Persephonica CEO Dino Sofos specifically mentioned people from ‘lower income backgrounds’ being priced out of London:

“It means people growing up in the South East have an unfair advantage at securing interesting and influential media jobs. The best way to change the status quo is to create more opportunities outside the capital.”

Other companies that have been based outside of London for years are also pushing it as an advantage, such as Distorted whose Head of Marketing, Becky Lamb-Pritchard, I spoke to for my previous article.

Audio is one of the few mediums where remote and regional production makes a lot of sense, and it was one of the reasons many other media forms turned to podcasting in the pandemic. It is also a great way to help make your podcast production greener, and it can increase accessibility for workers in many different circumstances, including disabled professionals, parents and carers.

The only thing to consider with this suggestion is to make sure it is not done at the expense of workers already employed in London. If a company is considering moving their office, they must offer enough support for those staying put to do remote working too.

OFFER PAID INTERNSHIPS (AND ADVERTISE THEM OUTSIDE AUDIO)

One of the key pledges in the Equality in Audio Pact was to ‘pay interns/no longer use unpaid interns’, and there are already several paid internship and entry-level schemes of note. Multitrack in particular is a scheme that has been running since 2019 and specifically references class as an area underrepresented in the audio industry. They work closely with industry partners, which this year included Novel, Goalhanger, BBC Studios Audio and Sony Music. As a company, you can work directly with Multitrack to offer placements at your company.

It’s also worth considering running internships yourself independently, particularly if you are a regional company, as you might have local knowledge to reach individuals outside of the audio network. Distorted offered a good example of this when they created an internship for 18-24 year olds based in Yorkshire. “We wanted to ensure our search went beyond our own industry networks and the more traditional entry routes” Becky told me “it attracted candidates from all parts of the region and all demographics.”

Reaching potential interns who aren’t necessarily tuned into audio networking in this way is really important, as the lack of connections or industry knowledge could mean that many talented individuals just don’t see the opportunities advertised. It’s one of the reasons I personally offered an internship in my own Tremula Network via Arts Emergency last year – it was the first time Arts Emergency had a podcast company offer a placement and there were several more people interested than I was able to offer a space to.

HAVE A CLEAR AND COMPETITIVE PAY STRUCTURE

UKAN (UK Audio Network) has been a good resource for me when it comes to finding jobs and learning about rates in the industry. This is partly because all posts for work have to include the rate of pay for all jobs, whether it is day rate for freelancers or a salary. However, one thing that I still find confusing with jobs across the audio industry is the pay structure and discrepancy between roles, particularly with day rates.

Whilst controlling rates across the industry would require some form of industrial action or intervention, individual companies could have clear pay structures and transparent pay grades. Knowing the pay makes it easier for people to decide if they can even afford to take on a job, but seeing the pay structure also helps people plan for a future in audio. Making those pay grades competitive and fair (for example by referring to rate cards like BECTU as a minimum) will encourage the ambitious and the talented to stay in audio.

EXPLAIN AND OFFER CAREER PROGRESSION

Your pay structure should go alongside clear job descriptions that explain the duties and level of responsibility, because the label ‘podcast producer’ is often too vaguely used for a wide range of jobs. The National Careers Service still doesn’t even have ‘podcasting’, ‘producer’, ‘audio producer’ or any form of the job in its database and this makes it difficult for newer professionals without a prior connection to the industry to a) know what could be available to them and b) tell whether a pay rate is adequate.

Companies could do a lot for people entering the industry by making the progression of ‘production assistant’ to ‘executive producer’ MUCH clearer, with pay grades that correspond.

THINK ABOUT YOUR ONBOARDING

When you have hired someone – whether as a freelancer or on staff – I think audio companies could do a lot more to bring workers into the company (especially if they are new to the industry). Coming from the public sector, the lack of onboarding with audio jobs was a real shock, and there are two different aspects that I think are worth making a more official part of all company welcomes:

a) Explaining the options for industry body support, unions and financial or mental health support (if available). A simple welcome pack that signposts people to places like ELAN (Entry Level Audio Network), UKAN, AudioUK, and Radio Academy would be simple to send to everyone – and if people don’t need it, they can just not read it!

b) Company-specific training for things that might seem simple but would take less time to explain than it would to pick-up, for example presets or preferences on the Digital Audio Workstation (DAW), who is who in the company, and any industry partners you work with regularly or newsletters you subscribe to etc.

SIMPLE ACTIONS ACROSS THE BOARD

All of these suggestions are fairly simple actions, and there may well be some of you reading this thinking your company already does some of these. That means that industry change to make audio more welcoming for working class audio professionals is not that far away – it just takes simple actions industry-wide.

Read The Other Articles In This Series:

How Is The Class Gap Affecting Audio And Podcasting Professionals?

Is There A Brain Drain in Audio?

The Cultural Capital of Audio

How Can Individuals Welcome Working Class Audio Professionals?

With the news that working class creatives are severely underrepresented in TV, film and radio, Content is Queen has been digging into class culture in audio. This time our writer Francesca Turauskis is focusing on the personal experiences of working class professionals in audio and podcasting, which highlight a divide that goes beyond money…

When we wrote our short, anonymous survey, we wanted to open up a conversation about the experiences of working class and financially uncertain audio professionals. With our specific request for ‘financially uncertain’ experiences, it is no surprise that issues around pay in audio, radio and podcasting have been a big topic in our previous articles in this series.

However, as one survey response phrased very well: “Class isn’t all about lack of money… this country’s obsession with class permeates all areas of society.” Some of the other concerns we touched on in our first article in this series, such as social currency, lack of regional jobs and outright prejudice, will not only affect individuals but limit the industry.

In this article, I want to give some space to these barriers for working class professionals, and share some experiences and anecdotes that need more attention.

Lack of Connections

The old adage of ‘it’s not what you know but who you know’ runs across industries, but more than one person emphasised the lack of personal or family connections as a key barrier in audio. “What seems to have held me back” one person said “is a lack of network connections due to having come to audio from an alternate career path”.

There are free initiatives in audio to help people build those connections – for example the Entry Level Audio Network (ELAN) or networking events from Radio Academy. Yet it’s worth considering that this remaining emphasis on ‘networking’ could be limiting who gets into the industry. As one response said, “the industry at the moment requires people to be complete ‘self-starters’, but that phrase itself is tinged with privilege. Who has the confidence to take the plunge, and where does that confidence come from?”.

I would agree that many people I know in audio (including myself) would fit in the ‘self-starter’ category. I would also argue that for many audio roles there isn’t an intrinsic necessity for ‘confidence’. Jobs such as editing and engineering are based on hard skills, and whilst some soft skills can help in those roles (as we discussed with Aradhna Tayal-Leach) perhaps it is another sign of de-professionalisation that a lot of companies are looking for good ‘all-rounders’. Roles that could be good for the more introverted have been combined with more outward facing roles.

Lack of Cultural Capital

The question of ‘where does that confidence come from?’ hints at the other result of good family connections, which is the cultural capital that can help people from middle and upper-class families get into creative industries. Cultural capital could include knowledge and behaviour that can be picked up from childhood – for example, simply knowing the type of jobs that could be available to you. As one person pointed out: “I absolutely had no idea about what ‘jobs’ might be beyond what I knew from home”.

Even if you know what jobs to aim for, the class divide can mean that “not knowing the secret codes that exist can prevent people from getting access to interviews and before – it happens right at the beginning of the process.” This goes beyond anecdotes – one study focused on independent television looked at the importance of networking to secure work, and found that people with high levels of cultural and social capital were more successful in this respect.

After entering the industry, the cultural capital can be a barrier to belonging. This could be something very specific within the culture of an office – such as a joint hobby or school experience – to a less tangible feeling. One person who had been working in radio and podcasting for more than a decade said “I STILL find a lot of things a bit weird and don’t quite know what the ‘done’ thing is.”

Overt Prejudice

Trying to navigate ‘secret codes’ is one thing, but the anecdotes around how people feel they are treated when they are from working class backgrounds is more serious. We already mentioned the ‘accent snobbery’ previously, and this was something that resonated with many readers. I’ll be looking into this a bit more in the next article, but it is worth saying that this is sometimes overt, and is also a part of reinforcing stereotypes. Chris Mitchell, who was one of Content is Queen’s 2022 micro-grant winners, told me that he has been told that he sounds too “intelligent”, “not street enough”, and even “not Black enough”.

I also found it interesting – and disheartening – to see anecdotes of location prejudice, where people were told their location was a reason for not being hired. Sumit Sharma, an award-winning producer and sound designer based in the Midlands, is currently trying to get out of freelancing but is struggling to secure well-paid work. “I just faced rejection from a third interview, one reason being my location in the Midlands, despite discussing my willingness to commute to London weekly. As a result, I’ve stopped mentioning the Midlands on my CV.”

I can imagine employers see this as a way of limiting the risk of lost work hours, but it is a prejudgment based on the location. Given that we know individuals from working class backgrounds are statistically less likely to relocate from their hometowns, it’s arguable that this kind of policy would have a worse effect on working class people.

One person who said “I have always had this sneaky feeling that my working class roots show” also said they were finding it difficult to secure full time work, despite experience. “In the past year I have had the chance to work on short term projects… when it came to having an interview for a longer term position, I wasn’t hired.” The job market is very competitive, and there’s no way to know if there was prejudice involved, but the fact the individual felt there might have been is of note.

When it comes to discrimination and recruitment laws, location and class aren’t protected characteristics, but it is something that some audio companies are considering more. Just this week, Persephonica announced that they have moved their offices to Sheffield, and Distorted, a company based in Leeds, are very proud of their Northern roots. Becky Lamb-Pritchard, Distorted’s Head of Marketing, told me “when the company was founded, we decided to base ourselves in Leeds, grounded in the principle that you shouldn’t have to move to London to work in the creative industries if you don’t want to. It doesn’t have to be one or the other.”

Many Routes Are Through Higher Education

In terms of providing steps into audio work, university is one of the most established routes in. One person who filled in the survey even specified that “University is actually a really accessible step to getting into industry”. This is certainly a step that many people highlighted, with one linking it to the cultural capital as well: “I’ve got no money, and no actual capital and no property but I have acquired cultural capital through my education.”

However, there’s problems with the industry relying on higher education as the route in. The latest data on widening participation in higher education shows there are still big gaps when it comes to class (as well as region, race and gender). As pointed out in the gov.uk website ‘Employers’ toolkit’, if you are the first person in your family to go to university (one possible description of working class) there is still “an acute form of disadvantage and signals a lack of support to navigate university and entry into the graduate workforce”.

A Barrier To Belonging

There is one final point that I wanted to address in this article that I’m finding difficult to explain. We asked a very open question at the end of our survey asking people to leave an anonymous comment. It feels significant that without prompting several people brought up the idea of ‘luck’:

“It feels like I got in by accident…”

“I DID have some beginner’s luck…”

“I’m now lucky enough to be one of few with a good salary in a FT audio position…”

Perhaps it is the feeling of isolation, with less than 10% of professional creatives coming from similar backgrounds, that leads working class individuals to feel like something of an anomaly in audio. However, I’m sure that their determination and talent had more to do with their success than luck, and it’s time to celebrate and uplift them more.

Looking For Solutions

I’m aware that the past few articles have been somewhat disheartening, with a lot of problems and difficulties being highlighted. However, I have heard from people (including my boss and Founder of Content is Queen, Imriel Morgan) that it has at least given shape to some issues. Hopefully the articles so far have also given some solidarity for others who have been contemplating similar issues in isolation.

The good news is, the final article in this series is going to be looking at some possible solutions, and highlighting some places that are creating a different culture in audio and podcasting.

Further resources:

– The Creative Mentor Network supports 16-25 year olds from lower socioeconomic backgrounds to help them develop their creative careers through mentoring, education, and opportunities.

– Multitrack has a number of resources to help you step into audio, including starting to build some guides to help you understand the different roles in audio production.

– If you want to sound like a pro when you first start working in audio, I personally found Content is Queen’s worksheet on audio and radio terms very useful when I first started.

Read The Other Articles In This Series

How Is The Class Gap Affecting Working Class Professionals?

Is There A Brain Drain In Audio?

How Can Companies Welcome Working Class Professionals?

How Can Individuals Welcome Working Class Professionals?

Here at Content is Queen, we have been asking how the current state of the audio industry is affecting working class and financially insecure audio professionals and podcasters. In the second of our short series of articles, our writer Francesca Turauskis is digging into the results to ask how we can make audio a place people want to work…

When we set up our mini survey, our aim was to get some idea of what the audio industry is like for working class audio professionals and podcasters. However, as mentioned at the end of my first article in this series, it was worrying to see that almost two-thirds of the respondents said they are considering leaving audio ‘seriously’ or ‘in passing’.

This feeling seems to be occurring regardless of class: almost all of the people who said they ‘Don’t Identify as Working Class’ also ticked that they had thought of leaving the audio industry in the past twelve months.

So in this article, I’m going to pivot (just for the moment) away from the conversation about class to address another issue – before we bring more people from underrepresented demographics into audio, how do we make it a place they want to stay? Here are some of my thoughts on where we can start.

ADDRESS THE ILLUSION OF SCARCITY

I’d like to begin by sharing one very honest comment from a survey respondent:

“The industry is shrinking left, right and centre. If it’s not huge radio conglomerates buying out local stations, it’s AI changing up the working processes. The industry is modernising, which is GREAT – it needs to. But it’s modernising into something a fraction of the size. Why are we still doing these “Getting into the Industry” events, there’s not even enough jobs for those of us already here?”

The worry from this person is clear, and if we want to talk about making audio a place people want to work, we need to make sure we aren’t pulling up the ladder out of undue fear. As I said in a previous article – listener numbers, advertising revenue, and the amount of shows all point to the fact that podcasting is a growing medium. Radio listenership is holding steady at 89% and the audiobook market is also in a state of growth.

I would argue that the jobs and opportunities are there – or could be made – but they are perhaps changing or going to different people. Looking at the UKAN Pay Survey, we can see stats that support this. In both 2023 and the 2024 results (which we got a peek at during The Podcast Show) wages have been stagnant or dropped for many people, except for those with more than eleven years experience. This suggests to me that newer audio professionals are being undervalued or compensated, whilst more established people are asking for more money – which makes me ask…

HAS AUDIO BEEN DE-PROFESSIONALISED? (AND HAVE I BEEN A PART OF IT..?)

When resources are tight, many industries fall into the trap of de-professionalising themselves by giving lower grade job roles greater responsibility without compensation. Meanwhile, mid-level jobs are cut and senior levels are placed in higher pay-grades as they manage larger teams.

Some of the responses of our survey would suggest this is happening in audio. One person said that the pay is “not high enough for the work we do, especially when we take on more than one role on a project” and more than one response suggested that “there’s a problem for mid-level producers” (something The Radio Academy has tried to address with their Mentoring Programme). And whilst I encourage people to get in touch with me if this has always been the standard, when BBC roles are advertised with a wage-range of “£55,000 – £85,000 depending on relevant skills, knowledge and experience” it begs the question of how it can be the same role? There seems to be an incentive (and excuse) to hire the person you can pay less.

This type of de-professionnalisation doesn’t just happen when budgets are cut, but also when there is a boom in industries – as we saw in podcasting over the pandemic restrictions. This is when people with less ‘relevant skills, knowledge and experience’ are accelerated to more senior positions to supply growth. Like many, I entered the industry because we went from 500,000 podcasts to nearly 4 million, and people needed producers. Thinking about the day rates and workloads I received at the start of my Producer journey – I was probably a part of the devaluing of audio.

However, I don’t think I – an ex-library worker, working fully freelance with no production connections – and others like me are to blame. I was offered a day rate, and the only open source reference I had for what to charge people was the Industry Rates from UKAN. This is pointedly ‘not intended as a fixed rates card’, yet as someone used to earning £15 an hour, those industry rates seemed pretty good to me. However, I’ve since come to learn…

AUDIO RATES ARE COMPARATIVELY LOW

As well as pay being low for the level of work, some responses suggested that the pay is low compared to other creative industries. One person said “industry bodies tout day rates which are unlivable. TV and film don’t pay as poorly as radio, often for less responsibility”. BECTU (the Broadcasting, Entertainment, Communications and Theatre Union) has a rate card that backs this up, with a Sound Trainee in TV and film getting a day rate higher than the average women in the UKAN survey.

And despite audio production and sound design for film and television being higher than radio and podcast, only around 5% of a film budget is given to the audio – rates for film professionals are even higher.

Quite a few people also mentioned that “The UK has abysmally low rates of pay relative to other comparable countries”. We can see this reflected not just in day rates and wages, but in grants for podcasts and audio in the UK compared to the USA where Amazon offers a $10k commission fee to create your podcast pilot.

Low day rates make it incredibly difficult to pull the majority of your earnings from audio as a freelancer – in order for the UKAN survey ‘lowest average women’ to make the National Living Wage, they’d need to be working a five-day week for 36 weeks of the year. The ‘lowest average non-binary’ would be working 44 weeks. In an industry that is often project based, this is unlikely.

WHY IS THIS THE CASE?

Whilst I can’t say it’s the only reason, there is one theory that keeps surfacing:

“There has always been a culture of ‘radio is a lovely part time job for the wife’ in speech radio. The idea that it’s a privilege to work in audio has created a low wage industry in comparison to other industries which require similar dedication, skill and hours.”

This idea that audio is a ‘fun hobby’ is something that Ella Watts also mentioned in our conversation, and I think it’s related that we have audio professionals like Leanne Alie, James Acaster and Thomas Curry self-funding or crowdfunding the shows they really want to make.

With this culture of audio work being a ‘nice-to-have’ and the need for even established professionals to self-start projects, it’s no wonder that less than 10% of audio professionals are from working-class backgrounds.

SO, HOW DO WE MAKE AUDIO A PLACE PEOPLE WANT TO STAY?

One of the reasons I wanted to work in podcasting was the fact it felt like a welcoming industry. Podcasters really love the medium, we have great fun making our shows and as a non-linear form, there is so much space for growth and innovation. However, it’s clear that there are some bad legacies in audio work and love can only take us so far. There are some things me might try as an industry to bring up standards across the board:

• We ALL need to welcome new people at all stages. We cannot pull up the ladder on people. The concern on whether there are enough jobs or career progression steps is a different problem and it is not new professionals’ fault.
• Share resources and going rates with new professionals. Whether they are freelance or employed, people new to a role should be told about resources, initiatives and industry bodies. Links to AudioUK, The Radio Academy, The Equality in Audio Pact and UKAN could be part of inductions as standard. Options for workers unions that cover audio – such as BECTU or Equity for Audio Artists – could also be highlighted, something that is common practice in other industries.
• Show solidarity on pay. The NUJ states that all members “have responsibilities, including, as stated in the union’s Rule Book, not to undercut other freelancers” and I think that audio professionals could have a similar pledge.

—

Read The Other Articles In This Series

How Is The Class Gap Affecting Working Class Professionals?

The Cultural Capital of Audio 

How Can Companies Welcome Working Class Professionals?

How Can Individuals Welcome Working Class Professionals?

—

If you have any thoughts on this topic, please feel free to get in touch with me directly on LinkedIn, and you can read the first article in this series ‘How is the class gap affecting audio and podcasting professionals?’.

Do you want to be a part of a welcoming audio community? The Content is Queen community awaits! Explore our membership options here.

This article was first published on 19th July 2024 and updated with our reader recommendation on 2nd August 2024.

Sports podcasts are still one of the most popular podcast genres, with many listeners saying that they help them connect to their passion. With the Summer Olympics and Paralympics starting in Paris later this month, many people will be searching for a good listen to accompany their watching.

But the Olympics and Paralympics are always about more than the sport. As a global platform, they often highlight societal injustices, issues of representation, controversies fuelled by greed and the politics behind it all. From the Black Power protests at the 1968 Olympics, to the reasons behind the exclusion of men in Artistic Swimming until this year, there is always a hundred stories behind the final event.

We think the best Olympic podcasts dig into this kind of history, the social structures and the politics that we might not always see in the final event. Here are seven shows that will make you appreciate this summer’s games even more.

EQUAL TOO

This limited series was spearheaded by Harder Than You Think (the team behind the Netflix documentary Rising Phoenix) and explores Disability equality through the lens of sports and the Paralympics. Host Sophie Morgan starts by exploring the history and the legacy of the Paralympic movement, but the show heads into the rights of disabled people and explores topics like employment equality, representation in media and more. Guests include Michael Johnson, Jameela Jamil, RJ Mitte, and Sinéad Burke, and many members of the Production team have lived experience of disability so the authenticity of this show is palpable. Listen here.

Persephonica were recently hiring for a Producer to work on ‘a new Paralympics related podcast series alongside the team behind the Rising Phoenix documentary’, so there could well be a follow-on for this series in the works for Paris 2024…

VARIOUS EPISODES ABOUT YUSRA MARDINI

Rather than a single podcast, this recommendation is to explore the life and story of Yusra Mardini. A competitive swimmer and refugee of the Syrian civil war, Yusra was part of Refugee Olympic Team at the 2016 and 2020 events. Her story has also inspired several podcast episodes – in the BBC’s The Documentary you can hear about her journey across the Hungarian border and into Germany, where she and her sister claimed asylum. Frank Film Club discussed The Swimmers, which is a Netflix film based on her life and the crossing of the Aegean sea in a dinghy. Yusra’s autobiography, Butterfly: From Refugee to Olympian – My Story of Rescue, Hope, and Triumph, was recommended by Laura Whitman in Bookshelfie and her story was part of the Good Night Stories for Rebel Girls series. However, if you want to hear Yusra herself talk, check out her interview on the How To Fail podcast, which left host Elizabeth Day almost speechless.

MUM’S GONE CLIMBING

Sport climbing is one of the newer events in the Olympic line-up, making its debut in Tokyo in 2020. If you want to learn more about the sport we can highly recommend the Mum’s Gone Climbing podcast to get an idea of the fun it can be. The great thing about this show compared to other climbing podcasts is that it gets into some of the lesser explored difficulties and misconceptions, as well as the benefits and the fun, of climbing as a mum. The episode with Leah Crane – a coach and previous GB Bouldering champion with a great approach to the sport through play – is a great place to start.

Bonus recommendation from Francesca: “If you’re looking for a bit of an ‘in’ to climbing culture, I’ve been the naive host in round-tables on different aspects of the sport for On The Outside. We’ve spoken about the reaction when Olympian Shauna Coxsey climbed whilst pregnant and whether topless men should be banned in climbing gyms.”

THE LEGACY OF SPEED

When Tommie Smith and John Carlos raised their fists in protest at the 1968 Olympic Games, it showed how powerful activism in sport could be. Pushkin Industries looks at the path to this moment In Legacy of Speed, tracking how coach Bud Winter trained the sprinters. His “Relax and Win” methods were revolutionary at the time, as was Bud’s focus on recruiting Black athletes to a mostly white school. His training and belief in the runners helped make them fast enough to win, and brave enough to take a stand in front of the world. The story is fascinating, and the perfect example of the social constructs that are happening on the path to the podium. Listen here.

BELIEVED

Wherever there are positions of power, there are people who will abuse that trust, and the Olympics is no different. In 2017, Dr. Larry Nassar admitted in court that he sexually abused children and women on the US Olympic gymnastics team over a period of two decades. Believed from NPR was released in 2018, in the wake of the high-profile trial and media coverage surrounding Dr. Nassar’s conviction. It tries to understand how he was able to get away with it for so long, and opens with the premise that “serial predators don’t just get away because of sloppy police work or inept institutions, they get away because we let them”. It’s another uncomfortable example of how much onus is on survivors of sexual assault to empower themselves, when they should have been protected. Listen here. 

BLIND LANDING

Blind Landing is an independent documentary podcast with an impressively in-depth exploration of a number of obscure Olympics controversies. Hosted by Ari Saperstein, the first series looks at how a mistake in the gymnastics set-up at the Sydney Olympics was very costly for a number of front-runners – and talks about how it could have been deadly. The analysis of in-house decisions following the mistake is fascinating, and you’ll soon find yourself invested in the controversy.

The second season ‘Out On The Ice’ focused on the way that figure skaters were forced to play into narrow gender stereotypes, leaving LGBTQ+ skaters feeling like they could not be themselves in the sport. Other one-off episodes explore important Olympic figures, such as Mabel Fairbanks (a Black figure skater in the 1940s), Ukrainian Gymnast Illia Kovtun and the Asian American figure skater, Kristi Yamaguchi. Listen here.

KEEP THE FLAME ALIVE

If you’re after a comprehensive Olympics and Paralympics podcast that gives you an insight to the events and competitors of today, Keep The Flame Alive is a great resource. Jill Jaracz and Alison Brown interview athletes across the range of disciplines, giving listeners some inspiration and insight to the life of an Olympian. If you want to learn more about some of the more obscure events, this is great. The episode on the American pool team speaks about the distance swimmers and divers, but also speaks to the Artistic Swimmers about synchronised swimming. If you want to learn more about how the Breaking competition will work, the episode with Ivan ‘Flipz’ Velez introduces listeners to the newest introduction to the line-up. The fact that the Paralympics and Olympic athletes are also integrated shouldn’t be novel, but is a lovely bit of curation.

FLASHPOINT

Flashpoint is a brand new show from Tenderfoot and iHeart Podcasts. Both these companies often delve into true crime documentaries, and this series explores the White-supremacist bombing that took place at the 1996 Summer Olympic Games held in Atlanta, and the following attacks on two abortion clinics and a gay nightclub. With archive audio, interviews with witnesses and a narration that is nicely contemplative narration there is a lot to find value in this show, but it is a difficult listen at times particularly with the sound design amplifying the interviews.  It’s nice to have a narrator connected to Atlanta as well, with the first episode giving small nods to his own experience of the city and interest in the bombing.  Listen here.

Listeners’ Suggestions:

EMBEDDED: TESTED

NPR’s Embedded series ‘unearths the stories behind the headlines’ and Tested is incredibly relevant to the Olympics 2024 headlines as I write this. It looks at the long history of gender testing in competitive sport, uncovering the deeply embedded belief that women need to fit into a box is.  This short series by Rose Eveleth has been several years in the making, and during that time they’ve been rejected because the story was ‘trans’  — but what is telling about this documentary is how many of the guests and people affected are cis, how many are women of colour, and how many of the rules come from men. Rose was told this story could only be made if it was approached as comedy, but it really is tragic listening. You can find out more about Rose’s struggle to get it created on Instagram @roseveleth and Podcast The Newsletter.  Listen here.

If you are interested in this topic, another recommendation on the same subject was The New Yorker Radio Hour episode  ‘The Trans Athletes Who Changed the Olympics – in 1936′. It features some of the same guests as Tested, and gives a good overview if you want a shorter listen,

OUTSIDE/IN

The Paris 2024 Olympics were at one time marketed as the most sustainable games in modern Olympic history, but a recent episode of Outside/In looked into the reality behind that claim. ‘Hot Olympic Summer: Is Paris Greenwashing the Games?’ speaks to experts who have analysed the carbon footprint of all modern games, looking at aspects such as public transport, construction and air conditioning. It’s not too surprising that the carbon-neutral Olympic caldron at this year’s games aren’t quite enough to make them sustainable, but there is a lot of interesting conversation in this. Listen here.

CIVICS 101

A lot of drama at the Olympics can focus on the individual athletes, but as a global event there is a lot of political drama connected to the games as well. ‘How Are Cities Chosen For The Olympics?’ is an interesting episode from Civics 101 that digs into some of the global politics behind the event. It comes hot out the blocks with a number of mic-drop comments, such as guest Jules Boykoff’s “if anybody tells you that the Olympics are not political, there is a very good chance that they are making their living off the Olympic Games…” before looking at some of the more obviously controversial games like Berlin 1936 (aka ‘Hitler’s games’) and Sochi 2014. This episode doesn’t purely focus on the controversial though, and there are nice nods to some progress such as North Korean athletes heading to the 2018 Winter Olympics in South Korea. Listen here.

The amount of people working in film, TV and radio who are from working class backgrounds is at its lowest level for a decade. In the first of a short series of articles, Francesca Turauskis takes a look at the class gap and how it affects audio and podcasting professionals from working class backgrounds.

Earlier this year, the Creative Industries Policy & Evidence Centre (Creative PEC) released a ‘Arts, Culture and Heritage: Audiences and Workforce’, a new report using data from the 2021 census to provide a comprehensive insight to the arts, culture and heritage workforce.

The report found that less than 10% of people who work in film, TV and radio are from working class backgrounds, when 38% of the general population would fall in that category. Sometimes referred to as ‘the class gap’ or ‘the class ceiling’, this statistic inspired us to explore what it’s like for working class audio professionals and podcasters, so we decided to create a short survey.

I shared the survey in UKAN and on LinkedIn, and as I write this, we’ve had 40 responses in a week. This is not a big enough sample for a full insight to the problems, but there are still clear similarities in the difficulties that working class individuals face when working in audio.

This is not intended as a full survey or analysis, but as an anecdotal starting point for future conversations. Here are some of the main points that deserve more discussion.

THE UNDERREPRESENTATION NEEDS TO BE ACKNOWLEDGED MORE

The first thing of note is that more than one response said “thank you for asking”. We know that there is some acknowledgement at policy level of the socio-economic gap – for example, the BBC measures data and has aims to increase economic diversity, and Audio UK mentions socio-economic background in their statement on diversity and inclusion.

However, it certainly appears that at the level of conversations and initiatives addressing underrepresentation in the industry, women, people of colour, LGBTQ+ individuals, and people with disabilities are specified but class or socio-economics rarely is.

Statistically, there is an intersection between these identities and being working class, so initiatives for one demographic could reach some working class creatives, but would fail to address other aspects of working class experiences.

DEFINING THE PROBLEM

There is a question over how to define ‘working class’ in modern Britain, and different places use different definitions. I asked people how they identify as working class, and people answering our survey could choose multiple definitions. My choices were based on definitions from The Social Mobility Commission, RECLAIM and Keir Starmer’s recent attempt to define ‘the working person’. Meanwhile, the BBC asks for the occupation of people’s parents (criterion set out by the Government/Bridge Group and Social Mobility group). Creative PEC used The National Statistics Socio-Economic Classification (a note, I did not have this option on our survey because it is more complicated to define accurately.)

Self-identification is one way to define working class, but when people are asked to self-identify as working-class, there is often a misalignment with these definitions. Indeed most people in the UK identify as working class, and there is evidence to suggest that people may downplay their privilege in this respect.

This ambiguity over ‘working class’ backgrounds could be part of the reason the problem of underrepresentation is not being addressed.

LACK OF FINANCIAL SUPPORT AND INCENTIVE

Money was one of the most common barriers highlighted. One person trying to enter the industry said that “Most of the barriers I’ve faced have been financial. I have missed out on too many opportunities, for example because the pay is extremely poor or a job requires an advanced and expensive kit.”

It’s not just entry level that finance is an issue – many people said that industry wages are just too low. One person points out “TV and film don’t pay as poorly as radio, often for less responsibility. We need honest conversations about day rates, not people gasping at the idea of paying more than £400.” Another person suggested that “The idea that it’s a privilege to work in audio has created a low wage industry in comparison to other industries which require similar dedication, skill and hours.”

This problem with finance was reflected across class as well. One person said “I am not working class, but I identify as currently living off of the last of my savings as I try to enter the audio industry as a producer”.

PREJUDICE

Financial insecurity might not be a unique working class issue, but unfortunately it appears that there is prejudice of working class individuals. “This might be my imagination, but I sometimes feel senior producers/audio producer execs/commissioning editors ‘sniffing me out’ and identifying me as from a working class northern background – even though I’m well over 50 yrs old now.”

Accents were mentioned quite a lot, and one person said “I also think that accent snobbery is huge, especially when you are getting beyond middle management.” Accent snobbery is something we have seen since the early days of radio – the BBC first allowed a Northern accent onto the air waves in 1941, and apparently some listeners were less likely to believe the news when Yorkshireman Wilfred Pickles was reading.

LACK OF REGIONAL OR REMOTE JOBS

Regional opportunities as something we spoke about with Aradhna Tayal Leach. One response suggested that “More companies need to offer remote freelance work i.e. audio editing or guest research rather than offering London studio shifts which are only beneficial to either the wealthy or those already living in London.” Another person stated that “The industry as a whole HAS to get better at supporting individuals outside of London and other major cities. The rural working class are completely cut off from access events”.

Of course working class people exist in London and cities – according to the Creative PEC report, most of the working class creatives are London-based. However, individuals from working class backgrounds are statistically less likely to relocate from their hometowns so the concentration of work and opportunities is limiting.

SOCIAL CURRENCY

The most common definition of working class chosen in our survey was ‘I don’t have many family connections to people with well paid, professional or powerful jobs’ (taken from RECLAIM definition) and this was highlighted a lot. One person said “it feels like unless you have significant personal connections or contacts then it is hard to get opportunities” whilst another said “It became very obvious when I worked at the BBC (mainly radio) and Sky News that the people who went to good schools and good universities did well. I hope that’s changed now.”

This social currency does seem to cross class slightly – one person said “my grandparents and parents were refugees… we’re not working class, but we are also not stereotypical UK middle class either. They and I certainly did not benefit from the networking and socialising that so many of my peers did.”

WHAT CAN WE DO?

We’ll be looking deeper into this issue and looking for some solutions. Some of the asks from the Equality in Audio Pact – for example, not doing unpaid internships – directly help across demographics.

One worrying statistic from our mini survey was that regardless of class, almost two-thirds of the respondents said they are considering leaving audio ‘seriously’ or ‘in passing’. It’s already clear that addressing these problems, and making audio and podcasting more sustainable, will benefit many people within the industry.

Thank you to everyone who took the time to fill in our survey, and give your anecdotes to this discussion.

Read The Other Articles In This Series

Is There A Brain Drain in Audio? 

The Cultural Capital of Audio 

How Can Companies Welcome Working Class Professionals?

How Can Individuals Welcome Working Class Professionals?

Francesca Turauskis gives us an overview of winners and memorable moments at the International Women’s Podcast Awards 2024. Photos courtesy of Everybody Media and Tigz Rice.

Now in its fourth year, The International Women’s Podcast Awards is something the Content is Queen team have strongly supported from the beginning. Created by Naomi Mellor of Everybody Media, the awards are a chance to celebrate and uplift work from all women and other genders underrepresented elsewhere in podcasting.

This year’s ceremony took place on Wednesday 19th June, which is just a seven month break since the last ceremony in November 2023. Even with the shortened entry period, the awards continue to grow, with over 700 entries and more than 33 different countries represented. The warmer month meant that the event could make the most of the new venue, with the rooftop bar of the IET London: Savoy Place welcoming guests.

There was a new host for 2024 – Samantha Baines comfortably took over from Deborah Francis-White, and the creator of The Divorce Social was suitably excited to be away from her newborn. Her own podcast won a ‘Moment of Touching Honesty’ at the awards in 2022, and she gave us some honest humour about pools of tears (it was much funnier than it sounds!).

Each year, there is something of a theme to the people presenting the awards, and this year awards Founder Naomi told the room that they were people “who have helped us and people who are still sticking around” since the awards were first introduced. This included many prominent audio professionals, including Content is Queen Founder Imriel Morgan, and myself!

The ceremony was full of touching moments and fun anecdotes. It was great to see some incredible shows from the Content is Queen community, and show’s we’re fans of, do so well this year.

The Winners

Moment of Compelling Storytelling
Presented by Louise Kattenhorn, Podcast Commissioner at BBC Sounds

Winner – Moments of Grace
Runner Up – Born Greek – Made American

In a beautiful start to the evening, Laura Khan Mitchison and Nicole Robson were awarded the ‘Moment of Compelling Storytelling’ for their oral history project Moments of Grace. This sound and light installation shares audio moments from nurses and midwives and will form part of a grand redesign of the most historic part of St Thomas’ Hospital in 2024. Laura is a Founding Member of Content is Queen, and many of the incredible stories were recorded in our studios. In her speech, Laura said “I haven’t won anything since I guessed the weight of an elephant… it’s so nice to have an opportunity to blow our single-use, gently lubricated trumpets”.

Moment of Insight From a Role Model
Presented by Leona Fensome

Winner – Cruising
Runner Up – The ADHD Women’s Wellness Podcast and The Convex Conversations

This award was presented by another Content is Queen friend, Leona Fensome, Founder & creative Director of Inkslingers Media. The winners of this category phoned in their acceptance from the USA, pointing out how a show about lesbian bars, the humans that run them, and the humans that call them a home can find a place in podcasting.

Moment of Behind-the-Scenes Brilliance
Presented by Chloe Straw of Audio UK

Winner – Lowlines
Runner Up – Tiny Huge Decisions

We’ve recently named it as a show to keep you entertained over summer, (and hastily had to update the article!). The behind-the-scenes brilliance of Lowlines goes to Lina Prestwood of Scenery Studios and Lucia Scazzocchio of Social Broadcasts who pulled together hundreds of hours of raw audio recorded ‘without an itinerary to record’ into beautiful narratives and soundscapes.

Moment of Comedy Gold
Presented by Giles Gear from the Cheerful Earful festival

Winner – American Filth
Runner Up – Tuna Sandwich

Another acceptance from afar, Gabbie Watts, Virginia Prescott, Julia Christgau and Emilia Brock thanked Americans for “being so filthy” so that they have a lot of subject matter. The iHeartPodcasts show dives into the filthier side of American history, and delivers plenty of laughs along the way. As a note of the equal opportunity of these awards, alongside one of the biggest podcast producers the runner up is a small show written and produced solo by Rachel Barrett.

Moment of Visionary Leadership
Presented by Tsedon Dorji

Winners – Unseen Upside
Runner Up – Cruising

In a testament to the international aspects of the event, the presenter of this award, Tsedon Dorji, travelled from Bhutan to be there. The winning show, Unseen Upside, is a branded show ‘powered by the network of Cambridge Associates’ and the acceptance video emphasised how the creativity of the content was important from the start of the production. Meanwhile, Cruising is the first show to make a double-placement in the winners and runners up.

Moment of Raw Emotion
Presented by Naomi Mellor

Winners – Girlfriends
Runner Up – Complexified

Presenting in-lieu of Jo Troy, who couldn’t attend due to sickness, Naomi named Girlfriends as the winner of the Moment of Raw Emotion. She stated that “this was so well received across the world” – and indeed, it was an universally lauded podcast from 2023. The team from Novel confirmed that “raw emotion is something we felt a lot during this show”, which is no surprise given the subject of how a group of women seek justice for the murder of Gail Katz. The second season of The Girlfriends has just finished.

Moment of Factual Clarity
Presented by Naomi Mellor

Winners – F1: Back at Base
Runner Up – Media Storm

Naomi mentioned that this new award exists because of Jackie Lynch from The Happy Menopause, who suggested the need for a category that was more fact based than the emotion-led categories. The winner of this award marks the first sports podcast of the evening, and there is something pleasing about it being a sport that has long been seen as a ‘boys club’. Media Storm comes fresh off the back of their UKAN Award Awards win to take runner up.

Moment of Podcasting Panache in a Language Other Than English
Presented by Barney Leigh and Emily Sandford

Winner – Caso Das 10 Mil
Runner Up – Te Busco Te Leo

Barney Leigh and Emily Sandford were keen to point out that they had no panache in another language themselves, but a note from behind the scenes that the judges of this category don’t have to speak the languages, but rather are given translated transcripts. Caso Das 10 Mil impressed the judges, and the short narrative series from Brazil addresses the important topic of the biggest legal case on abortion in the country – another example of how these awards amplify global women’s issues.

Moment of Touching Honesty
Presented by Francesca Turauskis

Winner – Sharing Plate
Runner UP – This Is What It Feels Like

Sharing Plate is a food podcast that is good for your soul, and it won the judges over as well. According to them, the entry was “presented in a very nonchalant way but very touching and very honest”, but we got to hear how guest Sasha told a story of eating ice cream in a war zone. This win was particularly relevant, as the awards fell in Refugee Week, and the acceptance speech was the most moving of the night, addressing the dehumanising rhetoric of refugees in most media Both the winner and runner up in this category were created by teams of two people and their quality was commented on by judges in both cases.

Recognition of Global Impact
Presented by Imriel Morgan

Winner – Sarah Koenig of Serial

In a very special moment Content is Queen Founder Imriel Morgan was proud to honour Sarah Koenig of Serial as the first winner of the ‘Recognition of Global Impact’ award. Ten years ago, Serial changed the way people perceive podcasts. Imriel spoke about the moment she finished listening to the first series, and how it captured her. She’ll be presenting the physical award to Sarah in London at the International Women’s Podcast Festival on 3rd October. It’s going to be a moving moment, so if you want to be a part of it, there are still some tickets available – get them now!

Award for Changing The World One Moment at a Time
Presented by Sangeeta Pillai

Winner – Culture Kids Podcast
Runners Up – Now Here and Things That Go Boom

Sangeeta Pillai asked to write her own introduction speech to this category because she was so passionate about the name of the award: “Podcasts quite literally change the world…We create quiet revolutions and we create loud revolutions” The winners of this category are a mother and son team who beat out shows from PRX and BBC Audio Lab. In Culture Kids Podcast, Kristen and Asher “aim to help children become empathetic, creative, and global-minded leaders in their communities” – the very definition of trying to change the world through a podcast.

We think that the time of the holiday read is over – 2024 is the year of the holiday podcast! This year, why not use the summer months to dip into some new shows?

We know that the summer months can sometimes be tricky for podcast listening – on the one hand, you might be too busy with family or enjoying some sightseeing to make time for your favourite shows. On the other hand you might find yourself with some extra hours whilst travelling, or relaxing on the beach wanting some gentle entertainment as you get some much needed vitamin D.

From short series that will keep you gripped, to one-off episodes you can fit into your journey times, here are our suggestions for seven podcasts you need to pack for your holiday listening.

Lowlines

A recent winner at the International Women’s Podcast Awards, this show is described as a ‘sonic scrapbook and a passport to roam’. Lowlines is a collaboration between Social Broadcasts, Scenery Studios and Petra Barran, who has gathered hundreds of hours of raw audio from her solo travels through the Americas. For those of us who might not have a holiday booked this year, we can still have a good sonic travel experience – we hear Petra’s audio diaries and musings, as well as field recordings, interviews and script looking back on the experience. Whilst you might want to listen through the series in one go, we suggest giving yourself a short injection when you want to be whisked away – you’ll soon be imagining yourself in the parades of New Orleans or sinking into the culture of (the slowly sinking) Mexico City. Listen here.

Killing Justice

There’s long been a juxtaposition of the year’s must-read crime novel being consumed in glorious sunshine on beach holidays. If you’re after some audio with similar murder, plot twists and intrigue, this could be the one for you. Killing Justice is not necessarily a light listen, as it does dig into the politics of modern India, giving a good insight to Modi’s nationalist government. But it’s all giving context to the throughline of Killing Justice, where former Obama staffer Ravi Gupta investigates the mysterious death of a prominent Indian judge. What is nice to hear on this show is how Ravi brings in his own backstory, and talks about the topic in relation to his own exploration of his India heritage as a first-generation American-Indian, “emphasis on the American”. We get intrigue on a grand scale, and a host that is personally invested. We’re hooked! Listen here.

Blame It On The Fame: Milli Vanilli

The R&B double act from Germany became famous in the late 80s and early 90s, then infamous when it was revealed that they lip-synched throughout their career. In Blame It On The Fame, we get to hear how Milli Vanilli were manufactured, but more interestingly we learn about the exploitation and cultural context that went on behind the scenes. It’s incredible listening to the truly convoluted effort that music producer Frank Farian put into the ruse, and host Amanda Seales adds a good amount of her own disbelief into her delivery. You’ll be greedily pressing ‘play next’ to find out the next crazy story. Listen Here.

Memories From The Dancefloor

Initially created as part of the Acast Amplifier programme, Memories From The Dancefloor is a docu-series hosted by Journalist Damian Kerlin. It’s returned for a second season to coincide with Pride, and this time Damian is moving away from the mega club scene of London to talk about how nightlife developed for those growing up queer in Wales. The first episode digs into Cardiff’s first gay club, The Red Dragon, tea dances for lesbians and the activism of Lesbians and Gays Support The Miners, which opened up conversations that often didn’t happen otherwise. With four episodes in this mini-series, this is a great listen for a bit of queer history, but more than anything it’s likely to want to get you up on the dancefloor by the end of the night. Listen here.

Pilot Season

It’s one of the shows we’ve been looking forward to in 2024, and it has not disappointed! Pilot Season is more than a podcast – it was created by Unedited for ‘proof-of-concept’ pilot episodes for podcasts, in the same vein as the ‘pilot season’ for television. This year includes two shows that Content is Queen has supported. A product of our 2022 Mirco Grant scheme, Redemption Man is the start of an investigative series from Chris Mitchell as he tries to discover more about a mysterious man who was seen carrying a giant cross throughout West London for almost 35 years. Meanwhile, from our 2023 Micro Grants, Dead Ting is an audio drama with a darkly comic edge that was recorded in the Content is Queen studios. It follows Koby and Tayo, two friends desperate to lose their virginity before university, who get drawn in by the seductive Mercedes… You can of course listen to the individual episodes of Pilot Season when you can fit them in, but we reckon you’ll want to engage in the whole series. Listen here.

Land Skeins

If you enjoyed Camlann after our recommendation back in Spring, this show is a nice short series to fill the gap whilst we wait for a second season. Land Skeins is part of an artist development programme to get theatre creators into audio drama. The four short stories are based around the four seasons, but there is a magic-realism to each piece. We hear from a woman whose mother may – or may not – have been consumed by mushrooms, seek a man lost in Epping Forest on Spring Equinox, and a summer where it’s been raining non-stop for months. Produced in binaural 3D sound, this is best listened to through headphones so you can get the full design of the sound. Listen here.

Broomgate

From the rising, clinky organ music to the way this show develops and reveals information over the episodes, Broomgate is clearly emulating Serial. A sense of fear surrounds the story, there are hidden figures that no-one can track down and we hear about a fall from grace for a super star. However, this show makes perfect light-listening for your summer holidays, because the topic is – at its heart – rather wholesome. Broomgate is all about a scandal in the sport of curling, a close-knit sporting community that isn’t often profitable enough for controversy. However, in 2015, a development in the technology of the brooms used to sweep the ice turned teams against each other, and the sport nearly imploded. Our host is a semi-professional curler, and comedian, John Cullen who couldn’t be closer to the key players in the story, and has a lot of love for the sport to share. Listen here.

—

If you’d like to join the company of Dead Tings and Redemption Man, you can record your podcast in our London studio. Prices start at £35 per hour, and you find out more here or get in touch if you have any questions!